Chinese Class - Apartment for rent in Xingfu Ercun -

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Apartment for rent in Xingfu Ercun
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dinokjy -

Located in a peaceful community to the opposite side of Australia and Canada Embassy. Walking
distance to Dongzhimen Subway and Sanlitun. Sunny living room, fully decorated with all necessary
appliance. RMB2800 each month. Contact Justin via dinokjy@hotmail.com or 13901334874.



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Chinese Speaking - Online radio/shows/podcasts for TEENS?? -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Online radio/shows/podcasts for TEENS??
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Strawberries513 -

Hi.. I am a 16-year old girl in the intermediate stages of learning Mandarin. I really want to
listen to/watch online radio/shows/podcasts etc, but everything that I can find seems too
adult-oriented. I will go crazy if I just have to hear about politics, foriegn affairs, etc. I
want something more teen-oriented. Any ideas?



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<<恒心>> -

Hi there Strawberries513!

Give Yinhe Tai 银河台 (Milky Way Radio) a try-- this is an online-only aimed at teens and
focuses on popular music and culture, fashion, etc. Also featured are serialized book selections
(Pianpian Ai Du Shu 偏偏爱读书) and ghost stories/ tales of the supernatural.(Yinhe Meiying
银河影 and Yinhe Jinghun 银河惊魂).

http://www.radio.cn/

Programs are achived for about a week here: http://www.radio.cn/yhtdb/ which makes for easy repeat
listening/downloading, etc. If you search around a bit, you can usually find an online version of
the book being read, which I did recently for the book "她死在QQ上" (roughly "She Died While
Instant Messaging"). That gives an idea of the type of stuff they do...some of the stories tend to
be on the pulpy side, but for me that just makes them all the more fun.

Yinhe Tai also has a seperate Xiangsheng 相声 channel here http://www.radio.cn/yhtxsxp/ and a
long-form serialized book channel here (mainly older/classical-leaning selections)
http://www.radio.cn/yhtcpps/

I hope that helps--enjoy!










Echoyao -

Hey, I think it would be a little bit hard to find Chinese learning sources only for teens, but we
can also avoid those boring topics.

Try www.chinesepod.com, www.ezychinese.com, www.adsotrans.com.
They have various and interesting podcasts/ video shows there.
Hope you'll like them.










gato -

I was into politics and foreign affairs when I was a teenager -- plus video games and sports.










Lugubert -

A young girl (25) of Cantonese mother tongue I know finds for example movies at youtube, and songs
(don't know where on the Internet) and identifies and translates the Putonghua song lyrics into
Swedish (and/or English?) using dictionaries and the Wenlin software (no, I don't get a
commission, but I think it' great). She loves it, and I think it must be as fun a useful.










<<恒心>> -

Strawberries513:

I though of another online station, INET Radio, which is part of CRI. Beyond the popular music
they play, they also cover topical issues in a teen-friendly way. One of my favorite programs is
鲜唱片 Xiān Chàngpiàn ("Fresh Records") that is a series of features and artist interviews
in a 30-minute format. You get a little bio of the artist, a few songs, and sometimes even an
interview. They also have an archive, so sampling what's out there is made very, very easy.
The main station page:
http://gb.cri.cn/inet/index.htm
鲜唱片 Page
http://gb.cri.cn/inet/programs/xcp.htm
鲜唱片 Archive:
http://gb.cri.cn/8201/more/8350/more8350.htm
Enjoy!












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Chinese Studies - Help With Character ID -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Help With Character ID
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中文新手 -

Hello. I've attached a copy of 4 Chinese handwritten characters that I'm not able to read. I do OK
with standard font style 汉字 but handwritten characters still throw me for a loop. I think the
first character is 丁 but I wouldn't take that to the bank. Thanks for your help.



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againstwind -

It should be 丁亥年書. Simple form is 丁亥年书, which means 'written in the lunar calendar
Year Dinghai'. BTW, this year, 2007, is just 丁亥年.










中文新手 -

AginstWind.....多谢！










trien27 -

BTW, this year, 2007, is just 丁亥年
wrong! 丁亥年 is between 2007 and 2008.












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Learn Chinese online - Learning only how to speak Chinese (vs write or read it) -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Learning only how to speak Chinese (vs write or read it)
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arkilok -

Hello everybody,
I'm thinking of learning Chinese during the spring semester next year. However, I'd prefer to
learn quickly how to speak Chinese rather than to learn how to write or read it. Do u know some
universities or institutions in Beijing where I can learn Chinese in pinyin? (because universities
usually give speaking "and" reading lessons)
Thanks for your advice!



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xianu -

I have heard peple talking about getting some service voice over internet thingy (Isn't that what
these things are called?) like Skype and then randomly meeting friends from different places. You
could try that. One of my students plays weiqi online and chats with Chinese friends over that,
and another met her czech friend using Skype and chats with her in German and English.










Xiao Kui -

The 1 month Chinese school teaches reading but not writing, so not completely what you're looking
for, but halfway there. Also they use Chinese Made Easier, a textbook that slowly eases in
characters to get you used to them, and gradually phases out the pinyin only after you've been
exposed to a character 10 times. There are some threads and posts abt this school in Chinese
forums, and I think member self-taught mba is one of the people who runs the school, so you might
want to PM him for more info.
http://www.1monthchinese.com/Why_CLIB.html

BTW, i think it would be difficult to teach completely in pinyin because one pinyin can stand for
30+ different characters/words in some cases.

Of course you can learn completely in pinyin, but I don't think the best courses would be taught
that way, maybe a short week-long crash course for travelers or sth like that.










kdavid -

And in addition to what Xiao Kui said, only learning pinyin will drastically limit your ability to
read and understand intermediate + textbooks.

The New Practical Chinese Reader, for example, phases out pinyin after the very first volume (6 in
total) except when defining vocabulary. From the second volume on, all exercises and reading are
in characters only. Also, the first volume only introduces around 400 - 450 words. So, at least
with this series of textbook (which I swear by) you still need to learn characters in order to
progress.

In my experience, most good textbooks are like this. So, you may want to invest time into reading
characters if you'd like to get past the Elementary level (without having everything broken down
and explained in pinyin by a third party).










flameproof -

arkilok
Seems you have set your mind already to "characters are impossible to learn". I made that error
too. If you look a little closer at character you will see that it's not THAT difficult. You can
learn a few 100 in a month easily.

In fact, I wonder about people that study Chinese full time in China and manage to learn just 1000
in a year.

I believe that reading and writing are quite different tasks. Just reading will be fine. Nowadays
we use computer and writing becomes MUCH easier. I can now even can figure out how to do the
chinese input on my cell phone, just by learning about stroke orders for 5 Minutes.

Learning characters will actually INCREASE your learning speed. Because words "stick" better in
the brain. Also, soon you can read other simple stuff then just dead boring learning material

I think for maximum speed you should learn by yourself, a school will just slow you down and let
you go through lots of BS you don't need or want.










kudra -

try www.fsi-language-courses.com for an extensive pinyin only chinese course.










yonitabonita -

The Bridge School are very proud of the fact that they place more emphasis on speaking than
reading. That said, there is still some reading. No mention of writing though.

Their website is:

http://www.bridgeschoolchina.com

I've never been there myself, but a friend of mine went there and gave it a good report.

good luck

y










roddy -



Quote:


Originally Posted by Xiao Kui

The 1 month Chinese school teaches reading but not writing, so not completely what you're looking
for, but halfway there. Also they use Chinese Made Easier, a textbook that slowly eases in
characters to get you used to them . . .


Is that 1monthmandarin or 1on1mandarin you're thinking of? 1on1mandarin definitely use Chinese
Made Easier, 1monthmandarin might, but I haven't seen them say specifically that they do.

Anyway, your best bet is, as you've figured out, probably to avoid a university, as they tend to
have a bit of an 'of course you shall learn characters. Just because you are the customer doesn't
mean you can choose what you pay for' mentality. Look at the private schools like the two
mentioned above, Diqiucun (pick and choose your courses and you could be doing oral Chinese from
morning till night), maybe consider working with a tutor.










arkilok -

Hello everybody,
Thank you to all of u for your advice. I'll think about it, and see what I'll choose. Please don't
hesitate to let me know if you have other suggestions.
Best,
Alima










atitarev -

We don't have to know Chinese characters in our conversational class here in Melbourne, all
examples, texts and dialogues have both characters and pinyin. If you have both you have a choice.
If you want to learn characters, you can and it's easy, because you don't have tolook them up
(time consuming) and you can always check yourself by covering the pinyin.

IMHO, you learn to speak faster, if you have a lot of material that gives you both pinyin and
characters.

Also, "Teach Yourself Beginner's Chinese" has excellent audio, good pace of learning. The big
drawback is it doesn't have characters but you, Arkilok, are not interested in them, anyway.

Eventually, you will have to learn characters as won't be able to go beyond basics.












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HSK - Chengdu / Chongqing Internet Speeds -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Chengdu / Chongqing Internet Speeds
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nitropuppy -

Presently, I'm told that the internet speed I can get is 1.5 megs. (I think) I'm not sure of the
speed rate but it seems incredibly slow compared to the service I got back in the U.S.(which was
ethernet speed of 15 megs)
Is there any way to get faster download speeds? Why is it so very slow here? Surely, China has the
technology for faster internet speeds. What's the deal?
I wanted to download some music from iTunes, but one 4 minute song might take two days to download
with this bogged down internet system. I don't want to tie up my computer that long. Any
suggestions or information?



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roddy -

Whereabouts are you, and what ISP are you on? How do domestic sites compare? If you can compare
with people in other cities / using different ISPs / next door you might be able to figure out
where the problem is.

I've had consistently good service with Beijing Netcom, bar the Taiwan earthquake - international
stuff is noticeably slower, but still entirely usable, domestic sites almost instant (if you allow
for the 2MB of HTML and flash animations). Can't remember what the fastest download I've had is -
120kB/s or 170kB/s, one of the two.










nitropuppy -

Howdy Roddy, I'm in Chengdu and the internet service provider is the local telecommunications
company. They provide phone service as well. I did a speed test for downloads. It seems I'm
getting about 70 kbps. Painfully .....s....l.....o....w..... !
I guess I'll just have to suffer with it. Nothing much I can do short of moving to another city.
And I'm not much in favor of that. Perhaps, I can trade MP3's with local expats.










pandaxiongmao -

If you used a speed testing server in another country, you will be running into the problem with
slow links to places outside of China. I don't get any more than about 35KB/sec for International
traffic, but I get up to 120KB/sec (almost 1Mb) downloading from sites within China.

Also, your provider may limit traffic using certain protocols, such as bittorrent. That is the
case with China Telecom in Hainan, for example. You could see if the speed problems apply to other
protocols, since it might not have anything to do with your actual connection speed.

If you have problems with the speed using sites within China, you might want to contact the phone
company and ask them why it is that slow.










nitropuppy -

Thanks for the hints and info. Just one more question if I can.
It seems I can't download from iTunes anyhow. They won't let me do it from China. (yes, I
understand why) Can you give me a competant web site in China where I can download music from. I
want to access typical american rock, and pop tunes. Would also love to get access to some British
greats like Emerson,Lake, and Palmer. How about some info on this?










banjo67xxx -

When in China, do what the Chinese do ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6163352.stm

Just in case you have trouble reading it, its a news report about Baidu.com winning an appeal
against EMI, Sony BMG, Warner Music and Universal Music over links to illegal music downloads.










roddy -

Those speeds aren't right, certainly not if you are paying for an ADSL service, and I'd still be
inclined to see what speeds other people are getting and take it up with the ISP.

On downloading - there are existing links in the music forum. mp3.baidu.com is the classic, but
with deals being signed between record companies and the portals there are an increasing number of
online options. Try Sina's Music Box for example - haven't tried it myself, just had to translate
a press release about it this morning.










Prodigal Son -

I live in Chengdu, have China Telecom internet (1.5mbps, 120元/月) and my download speed is
capped at 150k/s. I've requested the fastest internet they reasonably have and have been told that
I have yet.

I just returned from Chongqing where I noticed my friend downloading torrents at over 1mb/s, and
he told me he pays 90元/月 for whatever his girlfriend signed him up for. I can't believe the
speed varies that much between two cities in such close geographic proximity. I had China Telecom
internet before and could download at higher speeds, but they refused my request for a public IP
address.










roddy -

Merging the two Chongqing / Chengdu Internet Topics










nitropuppy -

Yeah Roddy, I'm on the exact same rate and system that Prodigal Son wrote about. It's 120 yuan for
the 1.5 service. I have a monitoring system for download speeds. The speeds I'm getting vary from
50-80 kb/s. Woefully inept. This may be because of several factors. The wiring in my building may
be a long run without a signal amp.(I'm 9 floor up) Or it could be antiquated wiring in the
building. And a few other technical reasons.
After talking to the company technician, who shrugged in the same non-commital way as everyone
else, I guess I'm stuck with what I'm paying for. At least for right now anyway. I'm presently
looking for another apartment in Chengdu. Hopefully, I can find a "no dogs allowed" apartment
complex with better internet speeds. If any exist. Thanks for the cross thread. It confirmed my
thoughts on the matter.












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Speak Chinese - Problems with Mac OS X 10.4.8 / Trad. Chinese Hanin / ZhuYin Std IM on German Keyb. -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Problems with Mac OS X 10.4.8 / Trad. Chinese Hanin / ZhuYin Std IM on German Keyb.
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hanyu_xuesheng -

Hi:

using Traditional Chinese "Hanin / ZhuYin Standard" input method on a German
MacBook with German Keyboard I encounter the following problems:

1. German Z = wrong Zhuyin ㄈ .... should be Zhuyin ㄗ = US: Y
2. German Y = wrong Zhuyin ㄗ .... should be Zhuyin ㄈ = US: Z
3. German - = wrong Zhuyin ㄦ .... should be Zhuyin ㄥ = US: /

The first two are not a big problem, but the third hinders me from
typing "Zhuyin ㄥ", which make this input method crippled and unusable.

E.g. I am unable to type "ㄆㄧㄥ" (Pinyin "ping"), because typing it
results in: "ㄆㄧㄦ" which is nonsense.

Even a taiwanese pc usb keyboard is of no help - the same wrong
result.

Any hints how to solve this??
I am quite disappointed about my Mac as I expected better software
quality from Apple.

Thanks in advance.



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gougou -

I use a German keyboard with American keyboard mapping, too. You can get the '-' by pressing the
'ß' key. If you do your standard writing with the American keyboard layout as well, you will get
used to the few differences very soon!












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Learning Chinese - Applying for BNU -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Applying for BNU
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panny -

Hi there can anyone give me information for applying to BNU?? I have been on the site - but the
site doesnt seem to be working well, and I can find any information for foreign students! I',m
plaaning to apply for the academic year for fall 2007, would i just need to apply directly or is
it better through agencies?? Is it too late to start applying now?

Also would there be any pick up services at the airport?? - I'm confused where to start off can
anyone plase advise me?

I was thinking of applying to BLCU before but I heard that there were too many foreigners . I'm
looking for somewhere where there are less foreigners to encourage myself to speak mandarin!

thks



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adrianlondon -

Apply direct, not through an agency. It's not too late; the deadline will close some time in June.
I think. The sooner the better though.

They'll pick you up from the airport provided you arrive during the days that they offer this
service. Arrange that online (along with accommodation if you require it) once you've applied
successfully and been given a registration ID.

BNU has less foreigners than BLCU, but how much Mandarin you'll speak still comes down to your own
willpower.

Apply direct on their website. It can be a bit crap and slow, but so are all the other web sites
in China, to be honest.

http://www.bnulxsh.com/english/index.htm










Bastonata -

How do you apply on the website? When I click "apply online" there's a login prompt.
Thanks










gato -

Below the login prompt, you see two buttons "login" and "register". Click on "register."












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Speak Chinese - Change Chinese CD to electronics file - Page 3 -

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Change Chinese CD to electronics file
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Page 3 of 3 < 12 3






skylee -

My question is only partly relevant to this thread.

As I suggested to elina I always use NeoAudio to convert CD tracks to mp3 format. But I am in love
with Baidu and had not had a new CD for quite a while. Recently, however, I've bought myself a
double-CD set on some classical music (it is actually the OST of nodame cantabile) and ripping the
CD tracks using NeoAudio proved to be a failure. Glitch, glitch. Because I've read about using WMP
on this thread, I tried WMP too, which behaved strangely by turing the tracks first to WAV and
then automatically creating MP3 versions. But it was no good as there are still glitches
throughout (do you call them glitches, those slight jumpings). And they are unbearable in
classical music.

So I've searched on-line and found this tool -> Exact Audio Copy. With the auto-correction
function, it works. But very very painfully slowly. (There must be something wrong with the CDs as
even if I tried to manually remove some errors, some seem not removable.) And I have to first turn
the CD tracks to WAV (very large files), then use another programme to turn them to MP3.

So my question is - are there better alternatives to deal with this problem?



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Quest -

Both windows media player and realplayer should rip CD fine. Make sure you have the latest version.










skylee -

No good at all. I can't hear anything wrong when I play the CDs, but, whatever programmes I used
to rip the tracks, the MP3 versions are not acceptable. Probably it is the CDs that cause the
problems.










ipsi() -

Could be copy-protection? Do they play fine on the computer? I assume so, since you haven't
mentioned otherwise.










skylee -

Yes, they played fine on the computer and in CD player. And it turned out that Exact Audio Copy
could not overcome the problem. It could be copy protection.

But I've had it sorted out now.

BTW, big thanks to Quest for helping me so so so so much.










md1101 -

in reply to skylee's

Quote:

So my question is - are there better alternatives to deal with this problem?

i sugges Itunes! A lot of people use it anyway because it's great for organising MP3's (and every
man and his dog has an ipod).

Put a cd in and a rip button will appear somewhere (top right if im not mistaken). Just make sure
you set in your preferences to rip it to MP3 instead of the default AAC format.

It will rip into your itunes music folder which is also set in the preferences.












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Chinese School - ZDT: HanDeDict dictionary plugin released -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: HanDeDict dictionary plugin released
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bogleg -

For all you German speaking Chinese learners, I'd like to announce the release of the HanDeDict
ZDT plugin. HanDeDict is a freely available Chinese-German dictionary in EDICT format. The plugin
is based on the Jan 27, 2007 version of the dictionary. You can download the plugin from here.

To install, just copy the downloaded jar file into your ZDT_INSTALL_DIR/plugins directory. You
will then have the option to select ‘handedict’ as your current dictionary.

If anyone knows of any other dictionaries they'd like me to add, please let me know.

Chris



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drahnier -

On my first attempt to use this plugin I got this:










bogleg -

Can you send me the log files? I just tried the query and it works for me. So maybe its a Vista
issue.

Thanks

Chris










drahnier -

Will send you ONE logfile.

Why do adso and cedict work, while handedict fails?










Ole -

Hi Drahnier, hi Chris,

I have not had any troubles in using this great HanDeDict dictionary plugin.

With XP it works fine.

Ole










bogleg -

Thanks Ole for letting me know it works on your system.

If anyone else has tried the plugin, could you please also respond to this thread and let me know
if it works or not? It would be great if people could help me test it, even if you're not
interested in the plugin itself. Please include the OS you're using.

Thanks

Chris










hanyu_xuesheng -

HanDeDict dictionary plugin works also fine with me (Mac OS X).

The only thing I dont like: the translation popup tooltips in the annotator appear after about 2
seconds. This is too slow...

Thanks for the good work.










bogleg -

Thanks Hanyu_xuesheng. I'll see if there's anything I can do about the annotator.

Actually I've found the problem and it's not OS related or anything at all. Unfortunately you
can't currently have both the Adso and Handedict dictionary plugins running at the same time
because an out of memory exception occurs. Oops.

I'm currently working on a fix.

Chris










bogleg -

I've updated the adso and handedict dictionary plugins to version 0.1.1. If you would like to be
able to use the adso and handedict dictionaries (or other future dictionaries) together, then you
should download the latest versions. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

Download link.










drahnier -

Sorry, but this is still broken; searching using adso or handedict gave me this error (while
searching cedict does work). This is very mysterious: I had installed the new adso and handedict
plugins and they worked flawlessly for two days, but today they appear to be broken again; the
difference now is that both adso and handedict produce this error, while previously it was only
handedict:












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Chinese Speaking - where did the business forum go? -

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
where did the business forum go?
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Outofin -

Hi, just say hello to roddy and make some random comments. I haven't been coming here for a long
time.

Where did the business and technology forum go? It was one of my favorites.

I found bhchao's "when did you lose your virginity" poll still attracts a lot of attetions, which
gives me a warming feeling. It's almost as long as my membership. Geez, sex is always an ever
lasting topic.



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roddy -

Long time no see. You weren't here for the consultation process, so the business forum died. You
can still post on the same topics, there just isn't a dedicated forum.










Outofin -

I got one more question. While using other forums, I found a very useful feature, which could
search for all topics I participated, so that I could see whether anyone replied my posts.

Is it easy for you to make one? I think you've done a lot of modifications on the system.










roddy -

It's always been there. Try this link - which you can find either by clicking on your name to the
left, or on your profile. You can also get weekly, daily or instant notification of topics you are
involved / interested in via subscriptions - Quick Links in the header, then Subscribed Threads.










roddy -

Actually, if you just want a topic listing of stuff you've posted in, with most recently replied
stuff at the top, go to the Search page, search by username (right hand side) for Outofin, make
sure 'Show Results as Threads' is selected at bottom left, and that should be what you want.
However, using the Subscriptions system is the best way to do it - see here for instructions. I
wrote that a couple of years ago, but should still work.












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Learn mandarin - Chinesepod again -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Chinesepod again
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laowai1980 -

2flameproof,
not trying to defend chinesepod or anything, but they do a good job in that they make the lessons
entertaining and unless you expect your level to go sky-high after a few lessons they provide good
material also. Now, what use is exclusively native content to me if I am a newbie? I did their
100+ newbie lessons, and their 90 elementary lessons. I am glad they have explanations in english
in those, otherwise I'd have a much harder time understanding the lessons and they wouldn't be so
fun. I just got to their intermediate level recently, and now they have a lot of explanations in
chinese. sometimes I feel it's pretty hard but it's good since it allows me to tune into the
native speaker flow of the language, Jenny doesn't try to slow down or anything. So if you need
everything native, it's there, just wait or skip lower levels if you're up to it and it's there.
Of course, chinesepod is not the only course I listen to, just wanted to make a point that you
sometimes need explanations in the language you can understand.



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wrbt -

I thought at intermediate, high intermediate, and advanced CPOD is mostly or all in Chinese?










laowai1980 -

Not sure, I just started on intermediate, it's kinda difficult for me, so I am happy they still
provide some english comments. Upper intermediate and advanced should be no problem purely in
chinese.










L-F-J -

obviously you cant just jump right into full chinese audio from the beginning. steve even said in
one of his interviews that you may listen and listen to something but if it is not your level you
simply wont understand it and will get nothing out of it. and later said on this forum that we
learn from what we know- having things explained in our own language. so i think having english on
chinese-pod is important in the beginning. and they do speak more chinese the more you progress
with it.

i think everyone is just taking this no-grammar no-english attitude to the extreme. you simply
cant do that especially in the beginning stages of learning. you need grammar and you need
english. steve has said both of these. grammar is always there and never ignored. just not focused
upon as the main point in study. and we learn from what we know....

later on though, you can start to drop the english dependancy as your vocabulary increases. but
grammar is always there in the background.










flameproof -

I think CPod is great for beginners. But one need a 2nd or 3rd source of input. At least, CPod
should also do some low entry Mandarin only stories.



Quote:

I thought at intermediate, high intermediate, and advanced CPOD is mostly or all in Chinese?

intermediate is still high in English. Upper are just too complicated. You can still have 100%
Mandarin contend which is not difficult, even for beginners.

Yesterday I listened a little to Antiwave.net , they seem to have interesting topics, but no
script. So I get only get only 30%

Is there anything out there which is interesting, and WITH (Chinese) script? I don't need English
translations.










gougou -



Quote:

the native speaker flow of the language, Jenny doesn't try to slow down or anything.

I have only been listening to their advanced lessons, and even there, I felt that it was still a
long way from what you hear on the street. I had little trouble following Chinesepod's advanced
lessons, but do encounter problems in many parts of normal life, e.g. listening to the news,
talking to a taxi driver with a heavy Beijing accent and so on. So if you want to get a good idea
about spoken Chinese, do follow flameproof's advice and get more sources of input.










laowai1980 -

Yup, more sources of input is dead on. No course is perfect, they all supplement each other. This
antiwave.net - what levels do they offer? The site is in chinese.










flameproof -

Maybe here is a good suggestion for CPod users:

Get an MP3 Editior
Cut out everything and keep just one storyline.

That brings the 10 Minute lessons down to one Minute or less. That's a good length to repeat 50
times. If you don't get it you can still listen to original with the English once in a while.

I think it's no problem if you don't understand much, after some time it will start to make sense
through context.



Quote:

This antiwave.net - what levels do they offer?

Podcasts on issues that are relevant to Chinese people. It's not designed for learners. But looks
intriguingly interesting.












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Chinese Pinyin - :help Chinese Perakun? -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
:help Chinese Perakun?
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Ding Yiyi -

I've been shown Chinese Perakun by a friend, but after 20 minutes of searching through Google,
Baidu and the Chinese Forums I have yet to find a link to it. If anyone can help me and show me
where I can find it I will be so happy! Thanks!



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flameproof -

...you can not google it because it's called ChinesePera-kun, or Chinese Pera-kun

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/3349/

It's great! However, I prefer Wakan now since it works on all apps, not just the browser.

http://wakan.manga.cz/










atitarev -

Some other tools with Chinese pop-up dictionaries:

HanziBar
http://realimaginary.com/

NJStar Chinese WP
www.njstar.com

Wenlin (my favourite but this one is expensive)
www.wenlin.com

ChinesePera-kun developer Xentropic has posted on this forum regarding his tool:
http://www. /showthread.php?t=12798










Ding Yiyi -

Thanks guys! Those are really helpful!












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Learn mandarin - chinese woman writer -

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
chinese woman writer
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astro -

Hello! from Spain

I am looking for nice phrases, which express the force, the importance of the woman,

of women Chinese (Zhou Wei Hui 周卫慧 Mu Zi mei 木子美) and Japanese writers. (in English
and Chinese, or Japanese) to put these short phrases in a sculpture for my city

Please, if it you knows someone, I will be very satisfied.


Thank you, happy new year.
Francisco Javier
multilenguaje@gmail.com



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skylee -

What is the subject matter of the sculpture?

You could consider 不讓鬚眉 (bu rang xu mei) if you want to express that women are as strong
and as good as the other sex.

BTW, I have not read any of the books of the two names you quoted.










gougou -

That might be because 木子美 is not exactly part of Chinese classical literature anthologies.
However, she does have quite a following today, thanks to her controversial blog (NSFW if your
boss reads Chinese )

周卫慧 is better known as 卫慧, the author of the equally controversial Shanghai
Baby.（上海宝贝）










astro -

Hello!

Simply I look for women writers who express themselves with freedom of which they feel. I would
like to put short phrases in Chinese-English (or Japanese-English, or Korean-English). You can
write to me? some phrase of Chinese or Japanese or koreanas writers for a sculpture?

That sculpture will have phrases of women writers of many countries

(excuses by my terrible English)












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Chinese Studies - ZDT: Typing special characters (nü3) - German keyboard -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: Typing special characters (nü3) - German keyboard
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Qin3wen4 -

Hello,

At first a big thankyou to the developer - With ZDT I've finally found an excellent software for
learning the Chinese language.
I'm a German using ZDT 0.6.1 with Ubuntu 6.06 (Linux).
When I learn in the flashcard mode and want to type in special characters like ü in "nü3", the
software claims that the answer is wrong.

How can type in them "correctly"?

Thank you in advance!



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Paolo -

Hi,

I guess you could input vinstead of ü when using ZDT, just like you do in Wenlin. Thus, when you
want to type nü3, I guess you can simply write nv3. Try!
Have fun!










Jockster -

Hmmm..you didn't tell us how you do it, but I usually ü is substituted by v, so for nü, just
type N + V and that should do it










bogleg -

Actually, it follows the Cedict convention which represents the umlaut with a u followed by a
colon. So for your example, you'd type "nu:3".

Chris










Qin3wen4 -

Thank you very much for your responses!

The version with the colon works well.










rohin -

Hi, just wanted to know how your suppose to enter ǚ in zdt. I've tried entering nu3 and nv3 for
the female character (女), but neither seem to work.










roddy -

Merging question with the answer . . .












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Chinese Tutor - ZDT: Auto update -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: Auto update
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cvkai -

Hello,

I would like to configure the "Auto update" feature of ZDT, but I couldn't find how to do it.
On the ZDT FAQ website, there is a link that is supposed to bring me to the step-by-step
instructions to set the auto update mechanism, but this link is bringing me to the main site. (
See: http://zdt.sourceforge.net/update.html ). Maybe this link is wrong, can anybody check it?

My ZDT is on version 0.6.0, and I want to update to the 0.6.1. That's why I wanna configure the
Auto update mechanism.

Thank you.



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bogleg -

Hi cvkai,

I haven't created an update build for the ZDT since version 0.5.0 due to lack of interest. Since I
took it out (~5 months ago) you're the first one to mention that you miss it. =) Anyway, unless
more people yell at me to include it, it probably won't be back as it saves me a few steps in my
build process. I should probably update the website though to reflect that it's no longer a valid
option.

Thanks

Chris










cvkai -

Ok, no problem! It is not that necessary.
I though that the link of the website was wrong by "accident", and maybe somebody else was also
trying to use the auto update mechanism.
But, it seems that nobody here is interested.

By the way, the ZDT is really helping me on my studies, specially that Flashcard feature.

Thank you!












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Chinese Tutor - Chinese English Bilingual Name List: All Nobel Laureates in Literature - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Chinese English Bilingual Name List: All Nobel Laureates in Literature
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2






atitarev -

It's even better if famous personal names (+ more geographical names) are added to the freely
available CEDICT dictionaries. Most dictionaries now derive from there.

Japanese EDICT has a separate name dictionary, which contains Chinese names but for Chinese it
would make more sense to store standard or generally accepted names of famous people, not just
Nobel Laureates but presidents, world leaders, basically people who is a lot of material is
written about.



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roddy -

I've installed a modification to allow the use of table formatting so that we could get this on
the board in an easy-to-read text format. Results below. Problems have arisen in that
a) Some of the special characters in foreign names aren't displaying correctly
b) The pinyin in the Excel file is in a 'Chinese Pinyin' font, and is completely mangled.

Those are both font / display issues, so let me first check - is everyone seeing this or is it
just me.

Also, the color highlighting has been lost - I can put that back in, it'll just take a little
time. I'm also attaching the original Excel file, for which you can all thank Againstwind.


Year Name Chinese Name Pinyin Language(s)
1901 Sully Prudhomme 苏利•普吕多姆 p} l du8 m}
1902 Theodor Mommsen 特奥多尔•蒙森 m5ng s4n German
1903 Bj?rnstjerne Bj?rnson 比昂斯滕•比昂松 b& 1ng s8ng Norwegian
1904 Frédéric Mistral 弗雷德里克•米斯特拉尔 f{ l5i d5 l& k7 m& s% t7 l` 6r Occitan
1904 José Echegaray y Eizaguirre 何塞•埃切加赖 h5 s3i `i qi7 ji` l3i Spanish
1905 Henryk Sienkiewicz 亨利克•显克微支 xi2n k7 w4i zh% Polish
1906 Giosuè Carducci 乔祖埃•卡尔杜齐 k2 6r d] q^ Italian
1907 Rudyard Kipling 约瑟夫•鲁德亚德•吉卜林 j^ b} l^n English
1908 Rudolf Christoph Eucken 鲁道夫•欧肯 l} d3o f[ 8u k6n German
1909 Selma Lagerl?f 塞尔玛•拉格洛夫 l` g5 lu- f[ Swedish
1910 Paul Heyse 保尔•约翰•路德维希•冯•海塞(海泽) h2i s3i (h2i z5) German
1911 Count Maurice Maeterlinck 莫里斯•梅特林克 m5i t7 l^n k7 French
1912 Gerhart Hauptmann 盖哈特•霍普特曼 hu- p} t7 m3n German
1913 Rabindranath Tagore 罗宾德拉纳特•泰戈尔 t3i g4 6r Bengali
1915 Romain Rolland 罗曼•罗兰 lu9 m3n lu9 l1n French
1916 Verner von Heidenstam 魏尔纳•海顿斯坦 h2i d]n s% t2n Swedish
1917 Karl Adolph Gjellerup 卡尔•耶勒鲁普 k2 6r y4 l7 l} p} Danish
1917 Henrik Pontoppidan 亨利克•彭托皮丹 p5ng tu8 p^ d`n Danish
1919 Carl Spitteler 卡尔•施皮特勒 sh% p^ t7 l7 German
1920 Knut Hamsun 克努特•汉姆生 (哈姆生) h3n m} sh4ng (h` m} sh4ng) Norwegian
1921 Anatole France 阿纳托尔•法朗士 f2 l2ng sh* French
1922 Jacinto Benavente 哈辛特•贝纳文特 b7i n3 w5n t7 Spanish
1923 William Butler Yeats 威廉•巴特勒•叶芝 y7 zh% English
1924 W?adys?aw Reymont 弗拉迪斯拉夫•莱蒙特 l1i m5ng t7 Polish
1925 George Bernard Shaw 萧伯纳（肖伯纳） xi`o b9 n3 English
1926 Grazia Deledda 格拉齐亚•黛莱达 d3i l1i d1 Italian
1927 Henri Bergson 亨利•柏格森 b9 g5 s4n French
1928 Sigrid Undset 西格里德•温塞特 w4n s3i t7 Norwegian
1929 Thomas Mann 托马斯•曼 tu8 m2 s% m3n German
1930 Sinclair Lewis 辛克莱•刘易斯 x%n k7 l1i li{ y* s% English
1931 Erik Axel Karlfeldt 埃利克•阿克塞尔•卡尔费尔德 k2 6r f7i 6r d5 Swedish
1932 John Galsworthy 约翰•高尔斯华绥 g`o 6r s% hu1 su& English
1933 Ivan Alekseyevich Bunin 伊凡•亚历克塞维奇•蒲宁（布宁） p} n^ng (b] n^ng) Russ
ian
1934 Luigi Pirandello 路伊吉•皮兰德娄 p^ l1n d5 l9u Italian
1936 Eugene O'Neill 尤金•奥尼尔 y9u j%n 3o n^ 6r English
1937 Roger Martin du Gard 罗杰•马丁•杜•加尔 m2 d%ng d] ji` 6r French
1938 Pearl S. Buck 赛珍珠 s3i zh4n zh[ English
1939 Frans Eemil Sillanp?? 弗兰斯•埃米尔•西兰帕 x% l1n p3 Finnish
1944 Johannes Vilhelm Jensen 约翰内斯•威廉•扬森 y1ng s4n Danish
1945 Gabriela Mistral 加夫列拉•米斯特拉尔 ji` f[ li7 l` m& s% t7 l` 6r Spanish
1946 Hermann Hesse 赫尔曼•黑塞 h7 6r m3n h4i s3i German
1947 André Gide 安德烈•纪德 j* d5 French
1948 T. S. Eliot 托马斯•斯特恩斯•艾略特 `i lü7 t7 English
1949 William Faulkner 威廉•福克纳 w4i li1n f{ k7 n3 English
1950 Bertrand Russell 伯特兰•罗素 lu9 s] English
1951 P?r Lagerkvist 帕尔•费比安•拉格奎斯特(拉格维斯) l` g5 ku^ s% t7 (l` g5 w5i
s%) Swedish
1952 Fran?ois Mauriac 弗朗索瓦•莫里亚克 m- l& y3 k7 French
1953 Sir Winston Churchill 温斯顿•丘吉尔 qi[ j^ 6r English
1954 Ernest Hemingway 欧内斯特•海明威 h2i m^ng w4i English
1955 Halldór Laxness 赫尔多尔•奇里扬•拉克斯内斯 l` k7 s% n7i s% Icelandic
1956 Juan Ramón Jiménez 胡安•拉蒙•希梅内斯 （西门内斯） x% m5i n7i s% (x% m5n
n7i s%) Spanish
1957 Albert Camus 阿尔贝•加缪 ji` mi] French
1958 Boris Pasternak 鲍里斯•列昂尼多维奇•帕斯捷尔纳克 p3 s% ji5 6r n3 k7 Russian
1959 Salvatore Quasimodo 萨瓦多尔•夸西莫多 ku` x% m- du8 Italian
1960 Saint-John Perse 圣琼•佩斯 sh7ng qi9ng p7i s% French
1961 Ivo Andri? 伊沃•安德里奇 `n d5 l& q^ Serbo-Croat
1962 John Steinbeck 约翰•斯坦贝克 s% t2n b7i k7 English
1963 Giorgos Seferis 乔治•塞菲里斯（塞弗里斯） s3i f4i l& s%( s3i f{ l& s%) Greek
1964 Jean-Paul Sartre 让•保尔•萨特 s3 t7 French
1965 Michail Sholokhov 米哈伊尔•亚历山大罗维奇•肖洛霍夫 xi`o lu- hu- f[ Russian
1966 Shmuel Yosef Agnon 萨缪尔•约瑟夫•阿格农 ` g5 n9ng Hebrew
1966 Nelly Sachs 奈莉•萨克斯 n3i l* s` k7 s% German
1967 Miguel ?ngel Asturias 米格尔•阿斯图里亚斯 ` s% t{ l& y3 s% Spanish
1968 Yasunari Kawabata 川端康成 chu`n du`n k`ng ch5ng Japanese
1969 Samuel Beckett 塞缪尔•贝克特 b7i k7 t7 English/French
1970 Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 亚历山大•索尔仁尼琴 su0 6r r5n n^ q^n Russian
1971 Pablo Neruda 巴勃鲁•聂鲁达 ni7 n} d1 Spanish
1972 Heinrich B?ll 亨利希•伯尔 b9 6r German
1973 Patrick White 帕特里克•怀特 p3 t7 l& k7 hu1i t7 English
1974 Eyvind Johnson 埃温特•约翰逊 `i w4n t7 yu4 h3n x]n Swedish
1974 Harry Martinson 哈里•埃德蒙•马丁逊 h` l& `i d5 m5ng m2 d%ng x]n Swedish
1975 Eugenio Montale 埃乌杰尼奥•蒙塔莱 m5ng t2 l1i Italian
1976 Saul Bellow 索尔•贝娄 su0 6r b7i l0u English
1977 Vicente Aleixandre 文森特•阿莱克桑德雷 ` l1i k7 s`ng d5 l5i Spanish
1978 Isaac Bashevis Singer 艾萨克•巴什维斯•辛格 `i s3 k7 x%n g5 Yiddish
1979 Odysseas Elytis 奥德修斯•埃里蒂斯 `i l& d* s% Greek
1980 Czes?aw Mi?osz 切斯瓦夫•米沃什 m& w- sh^ Polish
1981 Elias Canetti 埃利亚斯•卡内蒂 `i l* y3 s% k2 n7i d* German
1982 Gabriel García Márquez 加夫列尔•加西亚•马尔克斯 m2 6r k7 s% Spanish
1983 William Golding 威廉•戈尔丁 g4 6r d%ng English
1984 Jaroslav Seifert 雅罗斯拉夫•塞弗尔特 s3i f{ 6r t7 Czech
1985 Claude Simon 克洛德•西蒙 k7 lu- d5 x% m5ng French
1986 Akinwande Oluwole Soyinka 沃莱•索因卡 su0 y%n k2 English
1987 Joseph Brodsky 约瑟夫•布罗茨基 b] lu9 c^ j% Russian/English
1988 Naguib Mahfouz 纳吉布•马哈福兹 m2 h` f{ z% Arabic
1989 Camilo José Cela 卡米洛•何塞•塞拉 h5 s3i s`i l` Spanish
1990 Octavio Paz 奥克塔维奥•帕斯 p3 s% Spanish
1991 Nadine Gordimer 内丁•戈迪默 g4 d^ m- English
1992 Derek Walcott 德里克•沃尔科特 w- 6r k4 t7 English
1993 Toni Morrison 托尼(妮)•莫里森 tu8 n^ m- l& s4n English
1994 Kenzaburo Oe 大江健三郎 d3 ji`ng ji3n s`n l1ng Japanese
1995 Seamus Heaney 谢默斯•希尼 x% n^ English
1996 Wis?awa Szymborska 辛波丝卡(希姆博尔斯卡) x%n b8 s% k2 (x% m} b9 6r s% k2) Polish
1997 Dario Fo 达里奥•福 d1 l& 3o f{ Italian
1998 José Saramago 若泽•萨拉马戈 s3 l` m2 g4 Portuguese
1999 Günter Grass 君特•格拉斯 g5 l` s% German
2000 Gao Xingjian 高行健 g`o x^ng ji3n Chinese
2001 Vidiadhar Surajprasad Naipaul 维•苏•奈保尔 n3i b2o 6r English
2002 Imre Kertész 伊姆雷•凯尔泰斯 k2i 6r t3i s% Hungarian
2003 John Maxwell Coetzee 库切 k] qi7 English
2004 Elfriede Jelinek 艾尔弗雷德•耶利内克 y4 l* n7i k7 German
2005 Harold Pinter 哈罗德•品特 p&n t7 English
2006 Orhan Pamuk 奥尔汗（罕）•帕穆克（帕慕克） p3 m] k7 Turkish













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Learning Mandarin - Anyone else noticed BNU online applications not working? -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Anyone else noticed BNU online applications not working?
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xyz01 -

Is anyone else finding they can't get into the application section of the site? I click on 'Online
apply' and it just says 'Connection to database has failed'. The accommodation bit's also doing
the same thing. Is this a regular glich, as it was fine last week?

I'm mighty peeved as I've just got all my materials together and was going to send it all off
today!



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About Ads (and how to hide them) -- Your message here









adrianlondon -

I know their website is slow and confusing, but usually the one thing it does do is work OK. And
today is no exception. I've just clicked on "Online Apply" and a new tab appeared asking me to log
in.












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Chinese Tutor - Adsotrans & open source -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > Adsotrans.com Forum
Adsotrans & open source
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skryskalla -

I remember being impressed with NewsInChinese's annotation abilities and have been using it for a
while, but recently after reading some of the posts here and investigating more I see that
Adsotrans really is a pretty nice piece of technology .

I've been developing similar software and ideas on my own and started to dig more into projects
like Adsotrans (mostly open source like CEDICT, StarDict, etc.). I saw this thread from about a
year ago, as well as this site, which has some download links, but I don't see much official on
the Adsotrans site about its status as open or proprietary.

I am interested in discussing and helping develop Adsotrans (adding to the database,
simplified/traditional translation, any other good problems). What is the best way to get started?

thanks,
Steve



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trevelyan -

It really depends on what exactly you want to do.... for dictionary purposes, software development
or reference tools you can send me an email (email address at the bottom of the readme file on the
site) for a copy of the database. This is updated about once every two months or so.

If you are comfortable using Linux you can do more complex things with the software as well, but
it is a command-line tool that can be CPU-intensive and so requires a dedicated machine. Unless
you are dealing with an adventurous web-hosting company you probably won't be able to run it on a
shared host.










onebir -

off topic, and cheeky, but i'd like to draw your attention to my ZDT wishlist














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Learning Mandarin - 那 and 哪 pronunciation -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
那 and 哪 pronunciation
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Hero Doug -

I'm just wondering if someone could give me a bit of clarification about this.

From what I know I can say either na or nei for both. But is it better and to say na or nei for
specific terms.

Like use na for that, and nei for which, or does it just a matter of preference.



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geek_frappa -



Quote:

From what I know I can say either na or nei for both.

yes.

na in south.

nei in north.



Quote:

But is it better and to say na or nei for specific terms.

Like use na for that, and nei for which, or does it just a matter of preference.

it is the same sorta thing as using 儿 at the end ... 一点 .... 一点儿 .... ... either works
for me... this is a good question, btw. i hope i gave the right answer...





said fire ant to the rock: 洗手间怎么走 ... the rock replied: over there, jabroni










againstwind -



Quote:

na in south.
nei in north.

Probably right. (but not convinced)

Anyway,


Quote:

I can say either na or nei for both

That's right. Here are some details:

那 (na4) for that
1) Its most standard pronunciation is na4 at any time.

2) when 那 appears singly meaning 那(么) , it must be na4.
e.g.
那我们走吧。
那你真的不要它了？

3) followed by nouns, numerals and measure words, 那 can be pronounced as na4 or ne4 or nei4. In
oral, ne4 and nei4 are commoner.
e.g.
那三只兔子真可爱。
那小子挺帅的！

4）Especially 那阵子，那个，那会（儿），那些 and 那样 could be pronounced as
nei4 or ne4; 那么，那么点（儿），那么些 and 那么着 could be pronounced as ne4.


哪 （na3）for which or where
1）Used singly, it must be na3.
e.g.
哪（儿）？ where?

2) Followed by nouns, numerals and measure words, 哪 is often pronounced as nei3 or nai3 in oral.
e.g.
哪三只兔子啊？
你说的是哪个小子啊？

3）Especially 哪个，哪会（儿），哪门子，哪些 and 哪样 could be pronounced as
nei4 or nai4.

4) When 哪 is used in a rhetorical question, it must be na3.
e.g.
没有他妻子的帮助，哪有他今天的成功？










geek_frappa -

那个 那，哪那呢










sjcma -

那 can mean and be pronounced as 哪, but not vice versa. 哪 is a relatively new character. The
pronounciation of nei3 is a result of the combination of 哪一 (na3 yi1) which when spoken fast,
morphs into a single syllable of nei3. Over time, nei3 has become an acceptable pronounciation of
那/哪.

On a similar vein, 那 can be pronounced as nei4, which is a combination of 那一(na4 yi1).










Hero Doug -

Thanks for the confirmation. I was fairly sure they were interchangable. I always see 那边
pronounced as both nà and nèi.

I've even seen 哪 pronounced both ways.

and thanks for the expanded details againstwind. Where did you pull the information from?










againstwind -



Quote:

Where did you pull the information from?

From 现代汉语词典，3rd edition, Commercial Press

But I created these examples by myself.










geek_frappa -



Quote:

From 现代汉语词典，3rd edition, Commercial Press

ok, so, if you go to a small town in china, ask them the same question, and the person gives you
the textbook answer, would you run away? or ask a follow-up question?

i would run away.










sjcma -

Just to add a follow up comment. In order for 那 to be pronounced as nei4/nei3 and 哪 to be
pronounced as nei3, the sentence must work just as well if you substituted 那一 or 哪一 in
there. The same goes for 這, which can be pronounced as zhei4, but only if you can replace it
with 這一 and the sentence still works.










djwebb2004 -

The answers to this question have confused the matter. The formal pronunciations are na3 and na4;
the colloquial pronunciations are nei3 and nei4.

It is nothing to do with north vs. south. And: it is not just that the characters have a choice of
2 pronunciations; the 2 pronunciations belong to 2 different registers of speech.












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Learn mandarin - puzzled by the verb -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
puzzled by the verb
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semantic nuance -

Hi,

I got an English question to ask. In a test, it asked examinees to choose which is wrong in the
following sentence. The answer is (A) but I'm wondering why. It seems ok to me. I'd like to know
the reason if it is really incorrect. Thanks in advance.


The mailroom together with the copy center (A) is being renovated, so that production (B)is
increased, lighting (C) is made better, and general working conditions (D) are improved.



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roddy -

The mailroom together with the copy center (A) is being renovated, so that production (B)is
increased, lighting (C) is made better, and general working conditions (D) are improved.

two things, so it should be are, not is? Questions like this are pointless and even the 'correct'
sentence is ugly - I was going to say that a native speaker would never produce something like
that, but unfortunately we probably would - that doesn't make it pretty though.










in_lab -

Most grammar books only cover subject-verb agreement for simple cases.

Rule: Expressions such as 'with', 'together with', 'including', 'accompanied by', 'in addition to'
and 'as well as' do not affect subject-verb agreement.
Example:
The old man together with his grandchildren are in the barn. (Wrong)
The old man together with his grandchildren is in the barn. (Right)

http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:...en&lr=&strip=0


Phrases like as well as, together with, and along with DO NOT form compound subjects and DO NOT
take plural verbs.
http://www.uoguelph.ca/camc/essay_~1.htm

I suspect that opinions vary. Unless this test prescribes a specific grammar text that advises
differently than above, I think this question is inappropriate.










semantic nuance -

Thanks!

roddy, unfortunately, it's from TOEIC Test Book edited by native speakers.

I still feel puzzled. If it is incorrect, might it be the answer should be "The mailroom together
with copy center is renovated,....." instead of 'The mailroom together with copy center is being
renovated,...."?

Thanks!










in_lab -

I looked at it again and I think the error might be that there should be no comma before "so that"

When you use "so that" to join groups of words in a sentence, do not use a comma: I like to eat
breakfast early so that I will have plenty of energy at work.
http://198.85.71.81/english/commaguidelines.html










semantic nuance -

Oops! My mistake. There's not a comma in front of 'so that'. So the sentence is:


The mailroom together with the copy center (A) is being renovated so that production (B)is
increased, lighting (C) is made better, and general working conditions (D) are improved.

Any idea?










in_lab -

Someone answered this question before:
http://experts.about.com/q/General-W...-680/staff.htm

It says that "is being" should be "has been." So I guess the answer is the verb tense of A doesn't
make sense with B, C, and D, even though A is not wrong by itself. This is a hard test question.

Edit: On the other hand, I don't know if I agree with or understand that answer.










semantic nuance -

Thank you very much, in_lab. So, generally speaking, the original sentence is not incorrect. Can I
say that?










fulgentius -

Yes, that must be it. The first verb phrase is in progressive aspect, while the others are
perfect. Presumably that's what the test makers were trying to get at: how well you understand the
English aspectual system.

Still a very nitpicky question, if you ask me. And the red herring of the seemingly plural subject
makes it almost ridiculously hard.

As for why the subject is singular, I don't really know, but I'd hazard a guess that goes along
these lines.

1. a) v The mailroom together with the copy center is being renovated.
b) v The mailroom is being renovated together with the copy center.

The fact that you can move the second part of the apparent subject suggests that it isn't really
part of the subject because normally you can't do that. Compare:

2. a) v The mailroom and the copy center are being renovated.
b) * The mailroom is/are being renovated and the copy center.

In older versions of generative syntax that would be a transformation which moves the phrase
around, and presumably its original spot (before the transformation) would be as in (1b). Which
would mean that "together with x" is a phrase which modifies the verb, not the noun. And, sure
enough, "together" in this sense is an adverb.

But that's just a guess. It's probably more complicated than that.














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