Learn Chinese - suggestions on IUP , BNU , Princeton summer -

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Chinese in Beijing
suggestions on IUP , BNU , Princeton summer
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mi3gai4rui4 -

I'm currently in my 3rd year of university mandarin. This next summer (possibly my last summer
before graduating), I was thinking it would be a good idea to spend some time in Beijing and take
language classes to bring up my proficiency.
One general question I have is, Is an 8 week program long enough to really improve my Chinese?
Should I wait until after I graduate and then go for a full semester?
Has anybody done a summer program and noticed a huge difference? or been disappointed at how
little they improved?

My current plan is to do a summer studying in Beijing, then do a 4th year of mandarin at my
university in the USA, and then after graduation possibly going back to China, but to work, not to
focus on studying language.

Sorry if this post's topic is not well defined. But moving on with further questions:
Assuming I do a summer in Beijing, the options I'm considering most right now are IUP, BNU through
University of California, and BNU through Princeton.

I know the basics of the nature of all 3 programs, and I'd really just like feedback on how much
people enjoyed / learned mandarin during their time there.

Thanks for reading all that.



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leifkarlen -

I attended the Princeton in Beijing program in 2005 and learned a tremendous amount in the 8 week
program. I'm currently back in China at a "regular" university program, and I greatly miss the
quality and efficiency of the PIB program! If money isn't an issue (or you can get financial aid),
I think attending such a program would be a sound investment.










mi3gai4rui4 -

Do you have any complaints about it at all?
How did you find the "I will only speak Mandarin" oath?
Are the students who do it mostly Princeton students?










leifkarlen -

No major complaints, really. Sure, there were mornings when I wished we didn't begin at 7.30, and
times when I thought they could spare us some chengyus, but in retrospect we learned a tremendous
amount in 8 weeks. The language pledge worked well, and eating together with the teachers was the
equivalent of several hours of kouyu class. Can't remember exactly, but I'd say about 30% were
Princeton students.










Jamoldo -

Warning: almost all of this is what I've heard so take it with a grain of salt.

Princeton: Learn a lot, very very intense, like bootcamp, but you don't really leave the dorm (ie.
you pretty much just eat, study, sleep) ,don't meet Chinese people. That being said, everyone I've
talked to has been very positive about it. They did stress how tough it can be at times though.

BNU: A joke, just like normal summer programs at any university in China. No real homework,
teachers are lax, and there are no real actual students around to hang out with. A waste of money.
BTW I'm at BNU and have been for a year now and like it a lot but people definitely told me not to
stay the summer. I went to a university in Dalian, Liaoning Normal University instead (do a search
for it if interested). I had the same opinion with regards to workload, but Dalian was great for
the summer and I made good friends who didn't speak English. So it was beneficial and Dalian's a
great city.

IUP: A complete waste of money now and in a mess orginization-wise. My friend just finished two
years at IUP and she says they lost their long tenured director, the computer software is not up
to date (as it should be), and the teaching quality has plummeted recently (she's a Harvard PHD
student who has been there since 2005, when she raved about how great it was). She was saying how
they give the best teachers to advanced students when the less advanced types need it much more.
The structure looks good though: Intense, lots of 1 on 1 time with teachers, very small classes
(like 3-4 students). But she said it's just not worth the cost. Her suggestion: do CET Harbin or
go to Taiwan and do ICLP or BLI in Beijing (started by ex-IUP staff).










leifkarlen -

Agree with Jamoldo that Princeton is very intense, and it's true that there isn't much interaction
with Chinese students. However, there is an enormous amount of interaction with the teachers, not
just during the small and individual classes, but also outside of class: lunch with the teachers
at least twice a week, weekend trips etc. (Some of my best 口语classes took place during bus
rides to places outside of Beijing...).
In short, although there is a great deal of character-memorization, there is a great deal of
interaction as well.










mi3gai4rui4 -

Jamoldo,
referring to BLI in Beijing, is that the same as BLCU?
On the BLCU website it says that it used to be called BLI, but it seems to old to have been set up
by teachers who left IUP.










Jamoldo -

No it's most definitely not BLCU...










mi3gai4rui4 -

I just decided to go to Princeton in Beijing rather than ICLP or IUP next summer.
I eliminated IUP because of several online or second-hand accounts I read saying that the teachers
are better at ICLP. For instance, this article comparing IUP and ICLP came to that conclusion.
After that I needed to choose between PiB and ICLP. I chose PiB.
One reason was this this blog post on housing in Taipei. I really recommend this blog to anybody
considering going to ICLP, including the other posts, which are more positive.

I'll point out that the student writing that particular blog was studying at ICLP through a
scholarship program that gave him a specific amount to pay for housing, and he was very reluctant
to pay any more than that scholarship would cover. People who aren't as stingy might not have as
many problems. This is of course is a situation facing all those getting their own housing in
Taipei. I chose to attend a program that provides dorm housing. One less thing to worry about
during my first time in such a strange land.

I'll try and write a blog about my experiences at PiB (hopefully it'll get through the Great
Firewall) and post the link here.

Thanks a lot to all on this forum who helped me decide.










whitebigsanitat -

That's funny, I just chose IUP over PiB and ICLP for the summer. Actually, from what I've read,
ICLP probably would have been the best choice for me, but I realized (after sending in my
application fee) that I wouldn't be able to get to Taiwan before the quarter started. I chose IUP
over PiB because A) I heard that there's more of a summer camp feel at PiB and B) IUP has a
smaller class size. I'll also try to post a bit about my experiences.












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Study Chinese - ZDT: 070RC2 - still drag'n'drop issues and pinyin display issues -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: 070RC2 - still drag'n'drop issues and pinyin display issues
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drahnier -

Some issuesregardng dragding items from the dictionary to a category are still to be found in RC2.

Interestingly, if I add those items to the category manually they all show atrefacts in dispalying
their pinyin.



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Study Chinese - a Taiwanese letter -

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
a Taiwanese letter
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alekk -

Hi all,

I just came back from a 3 months long stay in Taiwan, and a friend gave me a letter at the
airport, but he wrote it in chinese(traditional). Unfortunately he did not translate it to me ..
Could anyone help me ?

many Thanx,
Alekk



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muyongshi -

Hi! Alex?? (literally ai li ke si)

Time has gone by really fast, (I) still remember the first day's [lit. sight or scenery] when I
greeted you at the airport and now at the same place sending you off from taiwan. Were your two
months of travel good? I hope you liked it here. This period of time I did not think of you as a
foreigner but as a friend as we went (lists all the places you went and things you did) together.
I also hope that you will like (confirmation on this part please... looks like 会喜欢 to me)
and remember me your friend!

If you have a chance come to Taiwan again and I (will) go to France to see you, I want to ski
(snow ski)!










tuxoar -

Here is a rough translation.... I didn't bother translating the place names, I figure you should
know them. And there is some sport that I couldn't figure out.. It's a start anyway!

=====

Hi, Dearest Alex!

Time really flies! I still remember the first time I came to the airport to pick you but, but now
it's time to send you back home again. Where the past 2 months of traveling enjoyable? I hope you
like this place! During our time together I took you as a good friend, not just a "foreigner". We
went to so many places, Fu Sheng, Kunting, Ba Xian Amusement Park, KTV, some sport?,night clubs,
motorcylcing, etc,etc. I also hope you will like and always remember me!

Hope you can come back to Taiwan! I really want to go to France and see you, I wanna ski!

Ken










tuxoar -

a testament to how efficient this board is, 2 translations both posted within one minute of each
other, lol

good work!










wontonsoup -

in taiwan, they write with traditional chinese, why did this guy write 机, instead of 機?










muyongshi -

Ha! Didn't even notice....










mi3gai4rui4 -

I've been told some simplified chinese characters actually existed first as written shorthand,
because a lot of common characters (like 机）are very complicated in traditional. I would think,
though that in letter writing one would be formal and use the complicated version, but I guess not.










in_lab -



Quote:

KTV, some sport?,night clubs, motorcylcing,

singing, pool, night clubs, ferris wheel










semantic nuance -



Quote:

in taiwan, they write with traditional chinese, why did this guy write 机, instead of 機?

Out of laziness. Too many strokes to write 機. There are a few simplified words used instead of
traditional Chinese characters, like 國(国), 會(会), 靈(灵), 豐(丰), 體(体), etc.

Hope it helps!










Lu -

He also seems to write 'R且' for 而且. I might be seeing that wrong, would be a really
interesting abbreviation, never seen that before!












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Chinese Studies - 黑白屏 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
黑白屏
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wrbt -

Is 黑白屏 a cell phone brand or type in China?

Thanks in advance for kind replies.



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Quest -

black & white screen (e.g. non colored LCD).










wrbt -

Oooohhhh! Duh. I shall now punch myself in the face for not seeing the obvious.

Thanks.












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Chinese Studies - The Warlords 投名狀 - Page 4 -

> Chinese Culture > Films and Television
The Warlords 投名狀
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skylee -

Not every film has true heros. Some stories are about cowards, some are about perverts, some are
about killers / murderers, and heros are not absolutely necessary in every story.



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huisheng -

No leading actor can act. I really like Andy Lau as a person, but his acting just again
disappointed me. I liked the ending, by which I wasn't surprised at all. 徐静蕾 looked horrible
in the film, whom my dad commented as hideous and not supposed to be there as there are just too
many stunning Chinese actresses. I feel I've wasted 20ish yuan on the DVD.










skylee -

The film has won the best film, best director, and best leading actor (Jet Li) awards of the Hong
Kong Film Awards 2008.

News -> 'The Warlords' dominates Hong Kong film awards










Outofin -

Congrats! I like the movie very much. I actually just bought its soundtrack. I though the music in
the movie was super cool. BUT, I disappointedly discovered that a piece of music is missing in
this CD, the battle of Su. I'm so disappointed. But track 12, This Is War (Montage), is exactly
what I was looking for. It's awesome.










chavalit -

Recently there has been a Chinese movie called 投名狀 or The Warlords in English. I looked up
many dictionaries but still couldn't decipher the meaning of 投名狀. Could someone enlighten
me? I haven't watched the film though but curious about the title since it makes no sense to me.










monto -

Neither do I. I have watched the movie and my Chinese is as good as the native. The movie is just
for making money, beside that, meaningless.










Peng -

Blood oath/brothers?










chavalit -

I also notice that another English title of the movie is Blood Brothers. But would someone please
explain in details the meaning of each character in this case and how these three characters
combine to mean Blood Brothers?










gougou -

Merging the two topics.










monto -

As the movie goes, the three of the heroes made an oath together giving their names. And according
to what the movie meant, at the time in that area, to break the oath meant death to the involved.
So we can take 投名狀 as The Oath of Life.












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Learn mandarin - 简体字 to 繁体字 - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
简体字 to 繁体字
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madizi -

As other posters already mentioned, the transition from simplified to traditional characters isn't
so complicated as it seems.

Mainland Chinese used many methods to simplify characters:

- they totally changed the character or left some parts intact: 聼 --> 听, 頭 --> 头, 賣 -->
卖
- changed only one part of character (radical): 見 --> 见, 詩 --> 诗
- replaced one phonetic with another one which sounds the same: 廳 --> 厅

Radicals are always simplified in the same way (言 --> 讠，見 --> 见，食 --> 饣，etc.)

So, with this basic rules in your mind there won't be any problem for you to quickly learn
traditional characters.



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Ari 桑 -

I guess its that first group thats the tricky one, the one that doesn't bare much resemblance to
the original. But I'll learn. Thank you.










Mugi -



Quote:

- they totally changed the character or left some parts intact: 聼 --> 听, 頭 --> 头, 賣 -->
卖

Learning the derivations of simplifications can be interesting in itself. 头 and 卖 are examples
of 草书的楷书化 (regular scriptification? of cursive forms), while I think I've read
somewhere that 听 has been used as a 俗字 (non-standard substitute) for 聼 since Song times.










gato -

See this table for a summary of the simplification process:
http://www.stlcls.org/s-words/Simplified_word.htm
简化字总表
讠[訁]N20
饣[飠]N21
纟[糹]
钅[釒]N23
呙[咼]










Lu -

The first group is the tricky one, but also the smallest one I think. If you read some traditional
Chinese, you'll soon come across characters like 買 and 這, that look completely unfamiliar yet
come up all the time. Look them up once or twice and you can read them.










skylee -

The character "聼" is puzzling. IMHO it is wrong as the 王 below the 耳 on the left is missing
and there are 2 unnecessary strokes on top (but such unnecessary strokes are not uncommon in some
fonts for characters such as 場). But it always comes up when I type with windows IME. I was
clearly taught when I was a kid that the character should be written in the order of
耳王十四一心. This is the correct character -> 聽.












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Learning Chinese - Any differences between standard Putonghua 普通话 and Ji-Lu Mandarin 冀鲁官话？ -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Any differences between standard Putonghua 普通话 and Ji-Lu Mandarin 冀鲁官话？
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Xi'Er Dun -

I'm probably going to study Putonghua 普通话 at Shandong University 山东大学 in Jinan
济南市 this Christmas and am wondering if the local language or dialect is any different from
that of the official language Putonghua?
By the way, in regards to living costs, how expensive a city is Jinan to live in (not talking
about accomodation but rather the costs of food for six weeks)? Are there any affordable places to
experience local cuisine or 山东菜 for a foreigner (I'm an Australian student).
How much rougly are airfares from Australia to Jinan, just a rough figure in Australian Dollars?

谢谢您

Xi ' Er Dun 希尔顿 from 澳洲



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skylee -

I think it is 齊魯 (Qi Lu), not 冀鲁.










isml_smile -

I am a Chinese living in Shanghai. I have to say that there are much difference.
Actually, if people who living in ShanDong say their local language, I can not even understand. We
can only understand each other through Putonghua.


My suggestion is that you should learn Putonghua and do not need to pay much attention to
ShanDong's local language. That's because Putonghua is more widely used in China.










Oceanfield -

In China's different place has different accent, in somewhere such as Ji-lu, people speak with
very strong local accent, their pronounce is different to Putonghua.
but the gramma and handwriting are absolutly the same.

I speak Putonghua










xuechengfeng -

I don't know how much it helps, but I lived in Qingdao for a couple months. Same province, couple
of hours away, probably similar in terms of development. Food there was relatively inexpensive. I
eventually shopped at the market and cooked my own food, so that was clearly cheaper, but eating
out at a local restaurant, I could get a decent size meal for about 15 kuai. You should expect
standard Mandarin there. Of course, there will be some 山东话, but you'll catch on. I only
noticed a little bit of dialect in Qingdao. For example, for 没问题, it could sound like mo
wenti as opposed to mei wenti.










carlo -

The countryside can be interesting. I'll always remember the very first time I went to a certain
place in Shandong, and heard the mayor speak Putonghua. For the first 30 seconds or so I thought
he was talking about rabbits (兔子), then I realised he meant investments (投资). At one point
the chairman of the People's Assembly announced she had lost the Party Secretary (书记) -- in
fact, she couldn't find her mobile phone (手机). After you get used to it, it's ok.










中国男子汉 -

Apparently some people have exaggereated the "difference" between Putonghua and Ji-Lu Mandarin.
I've been travelling around China and found that people in the north could understand each other
easily. Of course dialects and accents do exist but they are not big problems for understanding.
Besides, most people in the north speak Standard Mandarin.












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Learning Mandarin - Palm TX – I’d like to know before buying it… - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Palm TX – I’d like to know before buying it…
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gato -



Quote:

Then of course I should try the same process with “Chinese” as as non-unicode language (what
you recommend) but I am just scared that then all the specific French characters
(é,à,ù,ç,è,ê,ë) that I have in Outlook will then come strange after synchronisation (which
I really do not want) and that I cannot recover the original. So I haven't done it.

I think changing the language setting only changes how the text is displayed and not how it is
actually encoded in the file. So if the French is scrambled by changing to a Chinese setting, you
should be able to go back.



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Long Pan -

Finally I made the test with « Chinese » as non-unicode language on my Z22. But indeed it is a
mess with the French specific characters. And as I have much more French than Chinese in my
calendar, memo or address book, I go back to the French (but which means that I will not be able
to synchro Chinese characters on these applications ; never mind ).










Long Pan -

Now I just need to buy the machine! I thought I could do it today. Headed for 中关村 “e
城市” commercial centre. As I did not find any Palm in display, I asked to a shop if they knew
a place to find some Palm. The girl told many she had som... asked me to wait… ran away … and
came back 2 minutes later with a TX! I asked to test it but she was enable to switch it on. 2400
yuan for the price. I left for another shop where they had a Treo in display; asked for a TX. Same
process: the guy ran away… and came back with a TX. I immidiately recognised the box - the one I
had just seen in the other shop! Here at least they managed to switch it on and only asked 1900
yuan. I played with it and really enjoyed it, which confirmed my choice to buy a TX. Trouble is
that I would like to buy a "new" one, I mean not a TX which is running around from one sale to
another one.

So where to go ?










gato -

See this list of authorized Palm dealers, Long Pan.
http://www.palm.com/cn/products/wher...sellers01.html
购买地点
掌上电脑经销商










Long Pan -

Thanks a lot Gato, I'll do that next WE










Long Pan -

I bought the TX yesterday: 1980 yuan + SDcard 2Giga @ 190 yuan (did not bargain as the price was
lower than expected)
- Name of the shop (from the Palm list pointed by Gato): 盛通创新 STON innovation
- Address: 鼎好电子商城二层南区S2059门市

Until now things are going not too bad. Of course I’ve already spend a lot of time transferring
data from my previous Palm + discovering my new machine, but I guess this is the normal upgrading
process. Anyway without you I would have definitely lost much more time; and without this forum…
well I think I would have already quit the all business a long time ago...
So thanks again

I just have a small pending issue about Docs to Go with CJKOS which I have posted here










stephanhodges -

So what exact model number and SD model number did you end up buying?










muyongshi -



Quote:

convinced me to go for a Palm TX

I am also currently considering getting a new Palm (TX or Treo) and I was just wondering why not
the treo? What are peoples reasons for liking the TX so much and not the Treo. I know screen size,
wireless internet and some people just don't like having the keyboard because they have no use for
it, but I hate having to many gadgets and between my ipod and my cell phone I already feel it's
too much (I mean to carry everywhere) so adding a TX would almost be overkill. Any thoughts? Why
have people chosen to not go with the Treo and just go straight for the TX (besides price)?










roddy -

For me, two reasons outside those you mention. One, I want to be able to leave my PDA at home
sometimes but still have a phone. A smart phone is too bulky for my liking (although it's been a
couple of years since I last looked, and I might change my mind with my next upgrade) and b) you
can't get a decent camera on a PDA, but you can get a passable one on a phone.

That said, I do find the number of gadgets and wires I carry about in my pocket ridiculous. Maybe
I need one of those new Treos . . . .










gato -



Quote:

Why have people chosen to not go with the Treo and just go straight for the TX (besides price)?

I have been using a Treo 680 for the last month. I think it's just about perfect. In terms of
functionality, it's just slightly better than the Treo 650 -- a slightly better camera, I think,
though I haven't used the camera. But it's about 15-20% lighter than the Treo 680. It's not overly
bulky since you can carry it naked (without a carrying case) because the screen doesn't scratch
easily.

But its biggest advantage, for me, over the TX (aside from one less gadget in the pocket) is that
you can use Gmail Mobile to access gmail over your cell phone data connection (GPRS with China
mobile, which is something like RMB10 a month). http://www.google.com/mobile/mail/index.html
Most places in China don't offer WIFI access, but GPRS is available almost anywhere you can use a
cell phone.












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Pnyin - Texts with Zhuyin Fuhao (BoPoMoFo) online -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Texts with Zhuyin Fuhao (BoPoMoFo) online
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atitarev -

I was surprised not to be able even a few online books with a phonetic guide in Zhuyin Fuhao
(BoPoMoFo). Maybe they are all saved as graphics? I've got some books for kids but I'd like to
download something as text, so that I could use electronic dictionaries.

Is Bopomofo dying or is it only used in printed paper and very little online?

Just one good resource I know using Bopomofo (+ 2 versions of Pinyin):
http://edu.ocac.gov.tw/biweekly/animation1/index.htm



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tuxoar -

I been in Taiwan for over a year now and the only place you see BMPF is in text books and some
buddhist scriptures (specially printed by local buddhist groups here for when they read sutras).
Other than using it to type, it is almost never used in daily life.

As far as online, I can't really be of much help, I never really found anything online of
significant worth.

I don't mean to start another pronunciation system war but... Can I ask why you want to study it?










Lu -

I did a quick google search and found nothing. Seems there are no bopomofo texts online, and I too
only ever saw it used in children's books and the Guoyu Ribao.
Makes sense though, like pinyin, zhuyin is only a tool, a means to an end, the end being reading
and writing characters. Why would anyone write in zhuyin if they can write characters.

But it's by no means dying, afaik kids are still taught Chinese with it, and it's used in
newspapers and commercials and the like to write words that have no generally accepted characters.

tuxoar: can't speak for other people, but I learned zhuyin because it's the most widely used
system here in Taiwan. The effort of learning it is minimal, and it comes in useful.










tuxoar -

I don't disagree, it is widely used in Taiwan and does come in handy occaisionally. I learned it
once I got here. I think the effort I put into learing was worth it. To me it was useful for
dictionaries and the myriad of classical chinese texts that I was burying myself in when furriner
chinese class got too boring. So anyway, good for you taking the time and learning it, makes us
more versatile










semantic nuance -



Quote:


Originally Posted by Lu

Makes sense though, like pinyin, zhuyin is only a tool, a means to an end, the end being reading
and writing characters. Why would anyone write in zhuyin if they can write characters


Quite right. Books with zhuyin are mostly for children who cannot read all the characters. Only a
tool to help understand the pronuciation.


Quote:


Originally Posted by tuxoar

I been in Taiwan for over a year now and the only place you see BMPF is in text books and some
buddhist scriptures (specially printed by local buddhist groups here for when they read sutras).


Buddhist scriptures are characters transliterated from Sanskrit, so they need bpmf the phonetic
system we learn in Taiwan to help read these difficult words.

Links for texts with bpmf: please click
pronunciation learning
Chinese learning for kids-elementary
Children's Chinese Reader
Global Chinese Language and Culture Center

Hope it helps!

ADDED: E-Newsletter subscription for understanding Aboriginals in Taiwan (with bpmf)
This article is from that subscription.










atitarev -

Hi all, thanks for your answers.

Thanks for the nice links, Semantic nuance



Quote:

I don't mean to start another pronunciation system war but... Can I ask why you want to study it?

No need to start wars, Tuxoar. I can afford to learn another system, even if just for the heck of
it. Just because it may come in handy, as it does at the moment. I like the short stories book
(for kids) I borrowed. It's in traditional Chinese and it uses Zhuyin Fuhao. I prefer Hanyu Pinyin
too but I wish to broaden my horizons and learn ㄅㄆㄇㄈ.










aafrophone -

i'm learning mandarin from this taiwan site thing (so with traditional characters) and next to
each character is teh BoPoMoFo pronunciation. it kinda helps b/c its not as vague to me as Pinyin
(b/c i'm having issues with pinyin...) but it helps me. i understand how most learners dont' want
to learn it so my suggestion, if you don't need to learn them, dont.

PDF file of the text thing from Taiwain that i'm learning from:
http://edu.ocac.gov.tw/interact/eboo...DF%5CE-H-N.pdf










atitarev -

Thanks a lot! No wonder, I couldn't find resources myself - Zhuyin Fuhao 注音符號 /
注音符号 is published as image.

There are also some stories in Chinese with Bopomofo in gif image files with English translations
(also images).

--
Perhaps, it's too difficult to make vertical scripts on a web site, although, I tried converting a
Word document with Zhuyin Fuhao as ruby (furigana) into an HTML file. The Bopomofo characters
become horizontal in HTML.

Well, Japanese are not too fussed, they use both horizontal (if vertical is not practical or if
the text is mixed with another script) and vertical (more traditional)

See attached screenshots - vertical (from MS Word) and horizontal (converted to HTML):

They could do it in horizontal, if vertical is not feasible. I'd prefer this to image files but,
anyway, the site is great. Not sure if this is true but they say Arabic was only rendered as
images on the web until year 2,000 - there were problems with right-to-left directions.

--
Not sure what happened with my tone marks in the second word










JimmySeal -

I don't understand why, in this day and age, the browser giants (Microsoft & Mozilla) and the W3C
haven't made any substantial effort towards making ruby text standard. As it is, people have to
resort to using images, or placing the pronunciation in parentheses after the characters. Both
pretty ugly solutions, especially if one is doing it after every character.










atitarev -

Why, the ruby support is there:

http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_rubysupport.html.en

You need to install the add-on for Mozilla, MS IE supports ruby tags by default.



Only someone has to the job creating the files using this technology

Try saving this in an HTML file:

Chinese	Japanese	Russian	Arabic	Korean
你好 nǐhǎo (ㄋㄧˇㄏㄠˇ)	今日は こんにちは (konnichi-wa)	Привет Privet	مرحبا marHaba	안녕하세요 annyeong haseyo

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Chinese Pinyin - Chinese valentine's day - Page 2 -

> Chinese Culture > Chinese History
Chinese valentine's day
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shunyadragon -

One of the versions I heard in China is that the Magpie Bridge was the Milky Way in the Heavens.



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Learning Mandarin - Lust Caution 色，戒 - Page 7 -

> Chinese Culture > Films and Television
Lust Caution 色，戒
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skylee -



Quote:


Originally Posted by bhchao

But why ban her now if the movie has already been showing in Chinese theatres for several months
now?

Allowing the movie to be shown and then banning the actress several months later seems fuzzy.
Might as well ban the movie on opening day.


I agree.

Tang Wei can move to HK if she likes. Pianists Li Yundi, Lang Lang and actors Zhang Ziyi and Hu
Jun (of Lanyu fame) have already got HK citizenship.

Tang Wei speaks Cantonese quite well. She usually speaks in Cantonese on HK TV.



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wushijiao -

Here's a NPR review of Lust Caution.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=89494817

If you look at Metacritic (which compiles averages of movie reviews), Lust Caution got mediocre
reviews in most major US newspapers. A lot of reviewers thought the film was a bit boring. I think
the NPR reviewer captured why it was a good movie, and why it was fairly popular in Asia.

http://www.metacritic.com/film/title...lust%20caution












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Learn Chinese online - speakgoodchinese -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
speakgoodchinese
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newyorkeric -

I found this cool software at http://www.speakgoodchinese.org/index.html. It will record your
pronunciation and test how good your tones are. Has anyone used it or is anyone willing to try it
and supply some feedback on how well it works (it's free)?

EDIT: I should add that I tried it and liked it but am not sure how good the program is since I am
a real newbie when it comes to Chinese.



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newyorkeric -

I asked a native speaker to try this software. IMHO, given the analysis of her tones, I think this
software can be a great tool for beginners. I learned a lot about what I do wrong, not only
regarding the tone shape itself but also about how I don't keep my pitch smooth, that I have
trouble with two first tones in a row (dropping the second first tone below the first), etc.

I'm still curious about what others think.










cdn_in_bj -

Looks neat, I'll give it a try this weekend and let you know.










asialinks -

interesting... i tried it out too!










roddy -

Any tips on getting it working? I've installed, but the two programs it adds to my Programs menu
just open DOS boxes (is that the right word?) and then crash or close. There's a lot of info on
compiling stuff on the website, but I was kind of hoping that wasn't intended for us humble
Windows users . . .










heifeng -

ditto here...lost on what to do after i get hit with that black box and an error message










newyorkeric -

I'm not sure why it's not working for you. I am using a PC running Windows and there was no
problem. It does open a DOS window first and then a second or two later opens a second window,
which is the actual program.

For those of you who get it to work, there is an option for male, female, child speaker that you
have to choose from the Voice pulldown menu so that the program takes your pitch range into
account.

EDIT:
This is the version that I installed: http://www.speakgoodchinese.org/rele...gc-install.exe which
is listed under Windows download and installation instructions as Windows (right) icon on the
download page.










Skinkie -

Hello all


I'm the lead developer of the tool. Responsible for the Praat integration and crossplatform
compatibility of SGC.

Currently we can say all developers responsible for coding (sgc/praat):
- Don't use Windows
- We are ready to help


While making this program we experienced some very strange problems in relation to praat and
Windows XP. I have created two *totally* different implementations using praat (mentioned the
compatibility update on our site). It became clear different machines responded *totally*
different to the same code. If this was related to the praat program (which runs on virtually all
platforms flawlessly... or is related to my powers to link C code...) was put in the middle.



...but we can help.


First I need to know the error message in the dos box, you can run sgc from the directory it is
installed to. SGC *won't* work if you start it via the .exe(!) if you are not in the same
directory. This is because it uses a .ini and .glade file. This could technically be fixed in very
hard C code... so we decided we fix it using the wrapper file. Image program 'The Gimp' using this
Win32 'where-am-I-installed-fix', so it could be implemented.


So I suggest for the people having problems:

Start > Run > cmd
c:
cd\sgc
sgc

(Report the error messages)



One of your admins reported me this thread, you can find my email addy on
http://www.speakgoodchinese.org/


ps. I don't know if anyone already published a new version on the site. We are virtually all on
holiday after the official closing of the project (was hard work). But check out:
http://www.speakgoodchinese.org/beta/










roddy -

Yep, that was me - excellent response time!

Here's what happens as best as I can explain this. Please bear in mind that even starting up the
command box is unusual for me


Quote:


C:\>cd program files

C:\Program Files>cd SpeakGoodChinese

C:\Program Files\SpeakGoodChinese>sgc

*********At this point I get the standard windows 'sgc.exe has encountered a problem' message, and
nothing happens


then



Quote:

C:\Program Files\SpeakGoodChinese>singleword
Assertion failed: scaled_font->ref_count > 0, file cairo-scaled-font.c, line 607


This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.

C:\Program Files\SpeakGoodChinese>

Normal English XP Pro install.










Skinkie -

Thanks, that doesn't look good. Because it is cairo (the basic layer - with GTK).


http://www.speakgoodchinese.org/beta...2007-07-27.exe

Can you check if this works, otherwise the only solution would be to redo the cairo compilation...












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Learn Chinese online - need help to find the name of song -

> Chinese Culture > Music
need help to find the name of song
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neostar77 -

hi,

i love chinese music but am not chinese..however, i've listened to alot of sammi cheng and sandy
lam songs..

i need help to identify a song i need..basically, its a song played in a CD and its right after
the "Coca Cola" Theme song re-mix..played by either Sammi Cheng or Sally Yeh.

Can you help me identify the song right after the coca-cola song? its a very soft song, touching,
and kinda heartbreaking or love song..thanks..i would really appreciate if you gave me a name to
this song in english..

mike



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skylee -

"A CD"? Which CD? You do know that the same song can be included in different CDs, don't you?

According to info on the web there was a 1994 Coca Cola song sung by Sally Yeh. But I have no idea
which song it is that comes right after that Coca Cola song on "a CD".

Perhaps you could post a picture of the cover of the CD or the song names on the CD cover, so that
we could help you better? You can post the picture by pressing this icon , or using the "Attach
Files" function under "Additional Options".










neostar77 -

i wouldn't remember...yes this Coca Cola song was around 1994 by Sally Yeh..she had a audio tape
when i heard it..it was a white covered audio tape..a silver covered audio tape..do u know any
audio tape with that coca cola song of hers?










studentyoung -



Quote:

i need help to identify a song i need..basically, its a song played in a CD and its right after
the "Coca Cola" Theme song re-mix..played by either Sammi Cheng or Sally Yeh.

Do you mean the song is “Always” from Sally Yeh’s album “明月心”.

Thanks!










skylee -

The OP wants the song that is right after the coca-cola theme song remix ... in a white/silver
covered audio tape.

PS - If the album is 明月心, then the song that comes after "Always" is "落花" (take a look
at the photo of the CD). Perhaps what the OP wants is "落花". Listen to "落花" ->
http://www.wjtlozxxx.com/blog/Upload.../119943788.mp3












Quest -

Is the song in Cantonese or Mandarin? do you remember the melody or any of the lyric?










neostar77 -

basically, the last two posts have come up with the song 'always'. so i have a gut feeling its
that song..however, the 2nd last user who gave me that mp3 link doesn't open up in my web browser.

can anyone find me a url link to the song 'always' by sally yeh from that CD picture posted?
thanks!!










neostar77 -

ok guys,

i do know that song 'coca cola'..i know its 'always'..but that's not the song i need..the song i
need is the song after that..

i'll give you a clue of how the song goes about in that silver audio tape of 1994 with my least
translation skills:

"tam fi na fo yatiee......hi ni na fo yatieeeeeeee..se ne ta fo...hi ni na fo yatieee...se ne..."

as you notice..the main word pronounced in that song is something like "yatieeeeeeee" with it
being stretched..and the beginning of the song has some nice music instruments for 20 secs before
she sings..

secondly, the song is in both sides of the audio tape too! now, do you know the name of that song
of sally yeh?










Quest -



Quote:

basically, the last two posts have come up with the song 'always'. so i have a gut feeling its
that song..however, the 2nd last user who gave me that mp3 link doesn't open up in my web browser.

First of all, neither of the "last two" posts had come up with the song "always". Second of all,
the "2nd last user" who gave you that link had a name...

落花 sounds kinda like what you described.










neostar77 -

hi guys,

i need a link to that exact song of how i described my translation skills.

the song that had the url for me isn't the song!

can someone send me the exact url of this song - based on my translation skills of a couple of
posts before? thanks.












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Chinese Class - Visa: Introduction to Chinese visas -

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Visa: Introduction to Chinese visas
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#1



Visa: Introduction to Chinese visas




There are four types of Chinese visas you are likely to come across. A couple of other types do
exist, but you are unlikely to need to know about them unless you are here long term or work on a
boat.




Contents



* X or student visa
* Z or working visa
* F or business visa
* L or tourist visa
* Visa free Entry
* APEC Cards
* Green Card
* Notes
o Length of stay restrictions.




[top]X or student visa


Used by long-term students (usually more than one semester). Obtained from your local Chinese
embassy or consulate, you will need to provide proof of enrollment at a Chinese university.
Private schools are not usually able to assist you obtain an X visa. Once you have your X visa you
have three months to enter China. Once you enter the country you have thirty days to complete the
residence permit application process which will allow you to leave and enter the country as you
please as long as it is valid.

Under this Visa, the student is not supposed to work. However if the student is a native speaker
there is ample opportunity to teach English and get paid under the table. Many students do this,
and the authorities rarely check up on the students unless they have a reason. However, realize
that working under this visa is illegal[1].



[top]Z or working visa


Obtained from your local Chinese embassy or consulate, you will need to provide an invitation
letter from an approved Chinese employer. Many employers are reluctant to provide this and may ask
you to enter on a tourist or business visa. Once you have your Z visa you have three months to
enter China. Once you enter the country you have thirty daysto complete the residence permit
application process which will allow you to leave and enter the country as you please as long as
it is valid.



[top]F or business visa


Although commonly called a 'business' visa, the F actually stands for 访问 or visit. The F visa
is appropriate for short-term students (one semester or less) (that need to be confirmed as of
01-01-2008!!!!), those visiting for business purposes, visiting scholars, short-term internships
(not exceeding 6 months), etc. It is also commonly used by those working in China who cannot
obtain a Z visa. This is not legal, but often done.

To get an F visa from an overseas embassy or consulate you will need a letter of invitation from a
school or business in China. However, in Hong Kong agencies can arrange, at a cost, F visas of up
to three month duration with no documentation required. For more info, read about Hong Kong F
visas.

For many young westerners this is the visa of Choice. Most Europeans can get a 1 year visas, US
and other countries can be restricted to a 6 month visa. In some of the wealthier cities of
Beijing or Shanghai you may work one month (usually teaching English) and live of the earning for
another 5 months until you need to renew you visa or work again.

If you leave your Z work visa job the company can get the police station to revoke your visa.
However this entails some paperwork and is rarely done. For this reason some foreign workers
prefer the F visa. In addition, companies and schools need authority certification to issue the Z-
visa invitation letters. The criteria for F visa is less, and some schools will ask you to get the
F -visa.

Note: since 01-01-2008 the requirements for F Visa are stiffer. Hong Kong travel agent now give
only up the 3 month with no proof. For longer you need an invitation letter and you will have to
apply through an official channel.



[top]L or tourist visa


No supporting documentation required, but when applying don't mention on the form that you are a
journalist planning to research the plight of ethnic minorities in sensitive border regions.
Duration can range from 30 days to 120 days, and can usually be extended up to two times within
China.



[top]Visa free Entry


Currently, following nationals can enter China without visa for up to 15 days: Brunei, Japan,
Singapore
Source: http://www.fmcoprc.gov.hk/eng/zgqz/xwrmq/



[top]APEC Cards


If you are an APEC region resident you may can apply for an APEC card with a China visa waiver. An
APEC card will give you 3 years visa free entry.
http://www.apec.org/content/apec/bus...s_travel0.html



[top]Green Card


If you have started a large company in China or married a Chinese National, lived in China for 5
years you can apply and get a Chinese Permanent Resident Card. This will allow you to come and
leave the PRC without a visa. You will present the Green Card to Immigration on arrival, you may
need to present your passport as well.



[top]Notes




[top]Length of stay restrictions.


Be aware that F and L visas may have length of stay restrictions - ie, you may have a 6-month F
visa with a 60 day stay restriction, meaning you have to leave the country every two months.
Leaving the country can be as simple as crossing the border into Hong Kong and coming right back,
but even this can be expensive and time-consuming if you live in Urumuqi.

[1] Some Nanjing students made this mistake when they took part in a television advertisement for
a School that didn't have the authority to employ westerners. The School was shut down and
students were checked on everyday in the campus and were almost deported.




====================================================================================================





Contributors: flameproof, tester, roddy, muyongshi, simonlaing, cdn_in_bj, BrandeX

Created by tester, 23rd July 2007 at 06:17 AM
Last edited by flameproof, 13th January 2008 at 10:27 AM
6 Comments , 2731 Views


Discussion
















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Learning Chinese - Need translation for "what is this called" -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Need translation for "what is this called"
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JimmySeal -

I want to know how to point to something and ask what it's called in Chinese. Can anyone supply me
with a quick translation?

Thanks in advance.



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studentyoung -



Quote:

I want to know how to point to something and ask what it's called in Chinese. Can anyone supply me
with a quick translation?

You can say, “这个东西用中文怎么说？”

Thanks!










JimmySeal -

Gosh that's long, but thanks. Two questions:
Would 这个 be pronounced zhe4 ge, zhei4 ge, or something else.
Is 说 pronounced shuo1 here?










gougou -

You can shorten it to 这个怎么说？

这个 usually is pronounced zhei4ge, 说 in this sentence is shuo1.










JimmySeal -

Awesome. Thanks studentyoung and gougou.










johnd -

Is it correct to say 这个叫什么? I've been saying that, but not sure if it's just my Englese.










dotherighthing -

Hi, Johnd, "这个叫什么"　actually is more oralised expression, if I met you, you said that
to me, I would say" you speak quite good Chinese". ( not Englese at all)

Chinese is very flexible, so all of these expressions are proper and correct.










adrianlondon -

In my opinion ...

这个怎么说 is more like "how do you say that?" and the listener will infer that you're
learning Chinese and want to know the correct word.

这个叫什么 is more like "what's that?" and the listener will infer that you've no idea what
you're looking at. Although that might be better translated as 这个是什么

I'm a mandarin learner too, so please someone correct me where apprporiate!










trien27 -

adrianlondon, you are correct:
怎么? = "How?"

什么? = "What?"










mr.stinky -

wouldn't 这/那是什么？ be sufficient?

(ah,adrian also added this.oops)












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Learn mandarin - Another "what's my name in Chinese?" thread... - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Another "what's my name in Chinese?" thread...
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skylee -



Quote:

A look on the internet seems to indicate that 吉米 is a typical way of writing "Jimmy." Would
you all agree?

吉米 is so foreign (unless we interpret it as "lucky rice"). I think 子美 (Zimei) and 志美
(Zhimei) are much nicer ... But if you like it then it is what you should choose.

Famous Taiwanese writer Jimmy's name in Chinese character is 幾米. And 機密 (confidential) is
also "Jimi" in pinyin.

HK, your name is impressive.



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HashiriKata -



Quote:

吉米 is so foreign (unless we interpret it as "lucky rice").

What about 吉姆 (for Jim) ? Would it be any better?



Quote:

HK, your name is impressive.

Thank you, and as you say so, I may consider actually adopting it!










JimmySeal -



Quote:

吉米 is so foreign (unless we interpret it as "lucky rice"). I think 子美 (Zimei) and 志美
(Zhimei) are much nicer ... But if you like it then it is what you should choose.

I don't mind having something foreign-sounding. The goal is just to have something to call myself
that's not really weird, but I'm open to any ideas. The kanji name that I use for myself in Japan
(理珠慈美/Rishu Jimi) doesn't resemble a Japanese name and it confuses the heck outta people.



Quote:

What about 吉姆 (for Jim) ?

姆 practically has estrogen dripping off of it. Doesn't it mean "nanny?"










skylee -

慈美 is good. How about 李慈美 (Li Cimei)?










HashiriKata -



Quote:

姆 practically has estrogen dripping off of it. Doesn't it mean "nanny?"

I'll have wait for native speakers to say something about this but I often see 汤姆, for Tom,
without any question raised about the 姆 part.



Quote:

How about 李慈美?

Yes, 李 is a nice surname! ( as in skylee )










JimmySeal -



Quote:

慈美 is good. How about 李慈美 (Li Cimei)?

Sounds pretty good to me. Thanks to everyone for their help so far. At least one of 子美,
志美, 吉姆 or the two I mentioned is bound to work.



Quote:

I'll have wait for native speakers to say something about this but I often see 汤姆, for Tom,
without any question raised about 姆.

Ah, didn't realize that. If that's the case, then it could work.










gato -

How about just 李杰?
(You can also change your English name to Jet Li for good measure. )










JimmySeal -

Hehe.

I like the 李 idea but would it make any sense to have 李朱 or 李珠 for my surname? That
would be closer to my actual name. What do you guys think is best of the three choices, 李,
李朱, and 李珠?

Anyway, heading to bed for now. Thanks for all the help!










Lu -

Unlike Japanese surnames, Chinese surnames usually have only one character. So either 李 or 朱
would work, but the two combined don't make a Chinese surname as far as I know.
珠 sounds very feminine to me; 吉姆 sounds at least as foreign as 吉米, might as well just
call yourself Jimmy then; 慈美 sounds very Chinese, and if native speaker Skylee says it's ok I
suppose it's not too feminine, and it has the good part of also being your Japanese name, which
means the number of names you have doesn't increase too much, which is always a good thing.










skylee -

李慈美 is feminine, but I think it is not more feminine than 理珠慈美.












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Chinese School - Chinese RPG game - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Chinese RPG game
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stephanhodges -



Quote:

Here's one which should be free to play SUN, and another.

Uh, the web site says #1) Register, #2) Download #3) Pay

Of course, that may just be for the newbies who can't read the Chinese....

I would also be interested in a good text based game (some graphics OK), but NOT an online one.
I'm in China, and I don't mind purchasing something. Prefer logic or fun games, not combat. Any
recommendations along those lines?



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roddy -

Yeah, I just came across them in a translation about online games - as I understand it it is
possible to play without paying, you just get killed a lot because you haven't got a decent sword
and set of level 74 Orcish armour. No guarantees.










SeekerOfPeace -

First, I would like to thank you and express my gratitude for the multiple replies. I appreciate
your willingness to help.

I'm not looking for something online, however, for reason other members have mentioned.

I've asked this question at a lot of places on the web and have googled numerous times, without
any results.

It's fairly easy to find free, downloadable RPG games in English, I assumed it would be the same
for Chinese games.

I think a link to a website which collects such games would be useful and helpful.

Either that or something to copy/paste in Baidu (or some other search engine) to get relevant
results.

Thank you.










SeekerOfPeace -

Quest,

Beside the ones you linked me to, do you know any other rpg?

Thanks.










Quest -

Another game I would recommend is that 风云1天下会(1997) you posted in in your first post.

The 轩辕剑 franchise is pretty popular too, but not as good as the other ones imo. I haven't
played 轩辕剑5 though: http://youtube.com/watch?v=p_tKy7H2ydQ










ipsi() -

Hmmm... Interesting thread. I'm actually planning to start playing some games I bought in Chinese
as soon as I can get a new PDA, for the purpose of helping my Chinese (Jagged Alliance Two, I
think, and Civilization 3 are the only two that work on my laptop). I mostly bought them for that,
and because they were disgustingly cheap (10RMB!). I'm fairly sure they're legit, so I guess they
might be expensive compared to 水货 stuff.

I was actually hoping this might be about Pen and Paper RPGs in China(Chinese), but I guess not.

So I'm going to derail this thread and ask about P&P RPGs: Does anyone know if this concept exists
in China? Are there any Chinese ones? For reference, I'm talking about stuff like D&D,
Exalted, Vampire: the Reqiuem (and Masquerade, which has been discontinued), other games in that
line, Shadowrun (NOT the video game), etc. See DriveThruRPG to purchase PDFs.

I'm curious. Also, does anyone else on these boards play P&P RPGs?










Quest -

Like Space Quest? which reminds me of MUDs. There used to be a lot of Chinese MUDs, textual
multiplayer RPGs that were very popular back in the 90s.










SeekerOfPeace -

Thank you quest,

The problem I had with 风云 is that I couldn't figure out the inventory system.

Do you remember anything about that?










shaoz -

sorry to bring up this old post...

SeekerOfPeace is there any way i could get my hands on that 风云1天下会(1997) game u have?
like i could download it somewhere? i played it 10yrs ago on my very first pc and is looking
forward to playing it again...

about the inventory system its quite easy to understand i could help u out if i have the game...










BrandeX -

You can get Fallout 2 with the chinese language patch on VeryCD












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Chinese Pinyin - Cameron Diaz and her Maoist bag -

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Cameron Diaz and her Maoist bag
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JimmySeal -

Haha, this is what happens when you buy items with Chinese that you can't read:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070625/...e_cameron_diaz



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skylee -

I think even if she knew what was written on the bag (and probably she did because it is just
common sense to ask), unless she knew about what had happened in Peru, this couldn't have been
avoided.

I think the "to serve people" slogan is generally harmless.










JimmySeal -

I think the main thing was the army-green bag with a big red star on it. I'm sure most Peruvians
can't read Chinese either, but they sure recognized that symbol. Cameron Diaz can claim ignorance
because the bag has characters that she couldn't read.










Luobot -

“To serve people” sounds like the famous, old sci-fi flick, “How to serve mankind.” This
was a book written in alien language and brought by seemingly helpful aliens to Earth, who had a
stated mission of serving mankind. When the naïve earthling people finally learned the alien
language, they realized it was a cookbook about how to serve mankind.










roddy -

Sorry, but this looks suspiciously like a celebrity non-story to me - was anyone actually offended
at any point, or did a journalist spot what it meant and phone a couple of people who could be
relied upon to be offended? There's not a single named offended person in the article.

I know there's a large Chinese population in Peru - are there that many people who would recognize
this slogan and be offended by it?










gato -

From a news site for expats living in Peru:


Quote:

http://www.livinginperu.com/news-412...iaz-cusco-peru

Cameron Diaz's olive green messenger bag has caused an uproar among international newspapers and
journalists. Currently there are over 100 articles about how Cameron Diaz has "offended the nation
of Peru."

While it is reported that Peruvian human rights activist, Pablo Rojas made a statement with
respect to Cameron's choice of accessories, here in Peru it doesn't seem she has offended the
nation.












muyongshi -

Offended the nation of Peru....

Allow me to translate...a yodel that knew Chinese threw a hissyfit to someone that could make
money off of it and at the same time make a famous person look like an idiot and then it made the
news.

These people like to see others grovel because they are "sensitive". If it were my dad's
generation they would say "just get over it". Where is our society going?????

I agree with Roddy on this one. Stupidness about nothing.










JimmySeal -

Good points everyone, but it's still nice to see Cameron Diaz taken down a peg. I find her
obnoxious to no end.

fyi this story has been promoted from sub-story to top story on my Yahoo! entertainment news feed.
Yeesh.










gato -

She was pretty good in "Being John Malkovich."










imron -

I didn't even realise it was her until the end credits.












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